🗨 The footnotes provided in this revised expanded edition edited by Harrison Koehli are culled from contemporary sources and thinking and are a welcome addition, somewhat offsetting Lobaczewski’s own shortcomings noted above.
Agreed! Read Political Ponerology about 20 months ago. Happy to hear others have found this tome and are becoming better informed on the important concepts it contains.
Harrison, https://substack.com/@alexgutentag is a member of Shellenberger's "Public" group, and is mentionable in Notes. Maybe share this as a note and ask her to help raise awareness of your substack with Michael and other members of the group? I will do it if you prefer.
Sociopaths have been the most salient feature of my professional life and retirement. I witnessed the ponerization of a small community organization through the actions of two sociopaths and a few of their associates. This sort of social process is so obvious that one wonders why it took so long for it be discussed in detail. But discussion is like a medical diagnosis: it is only a preliminary step. A curative course of treatment for political ponerization is ultimately required. Formulating that prescription is far harder than making the diagnosis.
In a few words: the study of political evil. In a few more words: the study of psychopathology's role in political evil. More specifically: the study of psychopathy in politics, the central role it plays in totalitarianism, and many assorted topics. These topics include things like group dynamics (so-called ponerization of groups and movements as they become increasingly saturated with personality disordered individuals) and manipulation tactics (typical of psychopaths, and which scale on all social levels, e.g. political propaganda), among others.
I don't know how I found you, but I am happy I did. The thing is that you can see how when dark triad types are in charge, you have evil societies, usually on a small scale like mafia, and gangs, etc. Its much more serious of course when that kind of person multiplies and gets into political power over the entire society. What I find curious is how this is happening all over the anglopshere, not just ion one country. Any thoughts?
Partly a result of our synchronous secular cycles. We're riding the same wave, and subject to the same ideological influences, I think. Kind of like a collective immune failure, and an ideological epidemic affecting a weakened host.
Makes sense. Its certainly a strange time. Regarding gender ideology, have you ever hear of or seen the Denton's Document? Its really interesting and really frightening, its clear that some of the recent madness is completely engineered, top down. I am surprised this isn't bigger news. Very few people seem to be aware of it.
Cool. If you do read it (the Spectator article, or the original which can be found - it appears to now be in the public domain, probably to Denton's chagrin) and you find it relevant, I would love to see an article from you on Substack and your thoughts and interpretation. I don't recall if Josh has done any commentary on it, but if not, it literally proves his thesis that so much of trans and gender ideology is literally driven by dark triad. I am surprised it is not more widely known and circulated.
Ok cool. I did minor reading, is Lobzewski still alive? The subject matter makes sense to me, and I agree it is totally relevant today. I don't know if you follow Josh and Disaffected podcast, but its basic premise is all about this. I have know a few genuine dark-triad types in my life (I can never forget them) and I can definitely see some in the woke movement and gender ideology crowd. Which is why I am increasing fighting my school board and pushing back wherever I can because this is serious, good people need to stand up and push back. Now.
Nope, he died in 2007. I do follow Josh, even interviewed him twice for MindMatters (I was also a guest on an early episode of Disaffected). Good luck with the school board. I hope you and other parents succeed!
Within the school system, and many other places where woke rules, the fear in individuals is very real. Which makes it clear to me that we really are dealing with psychopaths and other bad actors. Its the fear that gives it away.
Spell binding Narcassism of the self was exemplified perfectly in the Q & A. After Shellenberger’s passionate speech that had nothing to do with his past expertise. He even specifically says how he has reinventing his career, presumably based on the subject matter of this talk. But one of the questions asked was specific to his ideas about improving the environment. This is the precise Narcassism the presentation describes.
See Science, Politics and Gnosticism by Voegelin. Also see You Gentiles, free PDF. Research Golem. I've read Ponerology +others on psycopaths and lots of Plato, all of Kant ++. Time to read Gnosticism and Gnostics.
I've been reading on psychopths, read Ponerology and Cleckley on psychopths. Been reading since 9-11, mostly philosophy inc Kant. I think gnosticism now, read Voegelins Science, Politics and Gnosticism - a true classic by a world class intellect. It's time to go down that road. Study the Golem, read the old books by rabbi's - start with "You Gentiles" - free PDF.
You're not biased, you simply decided to become the editor because it is one of the most important books of our time.
This passes the fact check.
🗨 The footnotes provided in this revised expanded edition edited by Harrison Koehli are culled from contemporary sources and thinking and are a welcome addition, somewhat offsetting Lobaczewski’s own shortcomings noted above.
🤩
Just bought the book thanks to inspiration from your Substack. Was encouraged to see Michael highlight it recently.
Looking forward to digging into it.
Enjoy! And feel free to share your thoughts anytime here in the comments sections. Or questions.
Agreed! Read Political Ponerology about 20 months ago. Happy to hear others have found this tome and are becoming better informed on the important concepts it contains.
Harrison, https://substack.com/@alexgutentag is a member of Shellenberger's "Public" group, and is mentionable in Notes. Maybe share this as a note and ask her to help raise awareness of your substack with Michael and other members of the group? I will do it if you prefer.
Thanks, Gary. Go ahead, if you're willing.
Sociopaths have been the most salient feature of my professional life and retirement. I witnessed the ponerization of a small community organization through the actions of two sociopaths and a few of their associates. This sort of social process is so obvious that one wonders why it took so long for it be discussed in detail. But discussion is like a medical diagnosis: it is only a preliminary step. A curative course of treatment for political ponerization is ultimately required. Formulating that prescription is far harder than making the diagnosis.
...and this is whither the ongoing Logocracy project is heading 😊
Well done on this recognition! I believe you worked hard on this newer English translation of this book.
My personal preference for a long book is Dianetics, and for a short book, Hubbard's History of Man. But of course I am biased.
Hi I like your stuff a lot, but I don't actually know what political ponerology actually is. Can you explain it simply?
In a few words: the study of political evil. In a few more words: the study of psychopathology's role in political evil. More specifically: the study of psychopathy in politics, the central role it plays in totalitarianism, and many assorted topics. These topics include things like group dynamics (so-called ponerization of groups and movements as they become increasingly saturated with personality disordered individuals) and manipulation tactics (typical of psychopaths, and which scale on all social levels, e.g. political propaganda), among others.
I don't know how I found you, but I am happy I did. The thing is that you can see how when dark triad types are in charge, you have evil societies, usually on a small scale like mafia, and gangs, etc. Its much more serious of course when that kind of person multiplies and gets into political power over the entire society. What I find curious is how this is happening all over the anglopshere, not just ion one country. Any thoughts?
Partly a result of our synchronous secular cycles. We're riding the same wave, and subject to the same ideological influences, I think. Kind of like a collective immune failure, and an ideological epidemic affecting a weakened host.
Makes sense. Its certainly a strange time. Regarding gender ideology, have you ever hear of or seen the Denton's Document? Its really interesting and really frightening, its clear that some of the recent madness is completely engineered, top down. I am surprised this isn't bigger news. Very few people seem to be aware of it.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/
No, but I will definitely check this out. Thanks!
Cool. If you do read it (the Spectator article, or the original which can be found - it appears to now be in the public domain, probably to Denton's chagrin) and you find it relevant, I would love to see an article from you on Substack and your thoughts and interpretation. I don't recall if Josh has done any commentary on it, but if not, it literally proves his thesis that so much of trans and gender ideology is literally driven by dark triad. I am surprised it is not more widely known and circulated.
Weakened in part by deliberate poisoning, I suspect.
The M.O. of this cohort, per the Denton's Document, is straight up bad faith Machiavellian. It just screams dark triad.
Ok cool. I did minor reading, is Lobzewski still alive? The subject matter makes sense to me, and I agree it is totally relevant today. I don't know if you follow Josh and Disaffected podcast, but its basic premise is all about this. I have know a few genuine dark-triad types in my life (I can never forget them) and I can definitely see some in the woke movement and gender ideology crowd. Which is why I am increasing fighting my school board and pushing back wherever I can because this is serious, good people need to stand up and push back. Now.
Nope, he died in 2007. I do follow Josh, even interviewed him twice for MindMatters (I was also a guest on an early episode of Disaffected). Good luck with the school board. I hope you and other parents succeed!
Within the school system, and many other places where woke rules, the fear in individuals is very real. Which makes it clear to me that we really are dealing with psychopaths and other bad actors. Its the fear that gives it away.
Ah that must be the connection.
Thanks HK. Great post!
Spell binding Narcassism of the self was exemplified perfectly in the Q & A. After Shellenberger’s passionate speech that had nothing to do with his past expertise. He even specifically says how he has reinventing his career, presumably based on the subject matter of this talk. But one of the questions asked was specific to his ideas about improving the environment. This is the precise Narcassism the presentation describes.
Not sure I understand. Are you saying he demonstrated narcissism, or explained it well?
See Science, Politics and Gnosticism by Voegelin. Also see You Gentiles, free PDF. Research Golem. I've read Ponerology +others on psycopaths and lots of Plato, all of Kant ++. Time to read Gnosticism and Gnostics.
I've been reading on psychopths, read Ponerology and Cleckley on psychopths. Been reading since 9-11, mostly philosophy inc Kant. I think gnosticism now, read Voegelins Science, Politics and Gnosticism - a true classic by a world class intellect. It's time to go down that road. Study the Golem, read the old books by rabbi's - start with "You Gentiles" - free PDF.
Just a note that I removed your other comment, which was a partial double of this one.