I am happy you were willing to do this work. I could not bring myself to plow through this section of the manuscript. It makes important points but contains subtleties that one must wrap one's wits around.
I don't have the "bandwidth" right now to compare these conclusions to what Hubbard came up with. But I am confident that his work was sufficient for his purposes.
If a community or society wants to confront this problem and try to create a legal framework and public policy that would deal with such people, what would they come up with? We have a system that works OK in the church, but I don't know that it could translate to the broader culture. The huge challenge, of course, has always been: How to prevent HF PPP's from taking over the system that determines who is a HF PPP? I think this could only be solved with a broad and thorough educational program among the general public. Otherwise, people will be persuaded that any such attempt is "dangerous" or might violate their civil rights.
I posted somewhere earlier of the young woman who had been willingly appointed bridesmaid (with zero expenditures expected) at a friend's wedding, only to fail on her commitments in every way, even the basics.
All of this was not exposed until the wedding day. When it was too late to fix. Meaning maximum emotional pain. The DP then told the bride, waiting on the church steps for this very late bridesmaid, that if she (the bride) broke down and cried, she would ruin her own wedding. Therefore the DP gets the target, coming and going.
“Her children were a reflection of her, they had to perform, or they were belittled and treated differently.”
There are stage-mothers and sports-mothers and tiger-mothers who live vicariously through their children. I think these are women with little personhood, projecting their own most coveted images upon the children. Of course you have some fathers of that nature too. Most of them are on the spectrum of disordered empathy, and will produce children who never have real personhood either.
There have been some such parents who may veer into far more sinister levels of this. I still wonder about the mother of JonBenet Ramsey, the child found dead at home (1990s). Or whether a DP parent might have been involved in the group of students succumbing to the suicide cluster of Palo Alto High School in California some years ago.
"Others had escaped punishment because they had hurt their fellows in a manner which does not qualify for judicial treatment under legal theory or practice."
This type of DP harm is often seen in the midst of their various divorces, and more especially within situations of Parental Alienation which are instigated by them.
For instance, within North America there are jurisdictions which still have a law on the books stating that any individual may be retained and held against their will for "mental health assessment" over varying periods. 72 hrs. is not unusual.
Who can put in a request for this? The spouse. And generally, the request goes through low legal levels such as a local Justice of the Peace.
Fill out a form which may have been passed out to the DP by police officers in domestic cases before they have any idea who the actual perpetrator is; therefore the DP can be introduced to this trick by the police on the scene....who the DP may have called using false allegations.
The perfectly normal spouse may have no idea it has been used against them until a police/sheriff team arrives out of the blue, handcuffs them in front of children and neighbours, and takes them off to a secure mental unit. While the DP looks on feigning concern. Puts on an Academy Award performance.
The police? "Just doing my job, Ma'am/Sir." Once an order for this has been signed, they are blind, deaf and dumb to the truth of the matter. Do not wish to know.
This is a variant of the Victorian gentleman, tired of the wife, arranging to trade her in for a newer model by using the "mad wife in the attic" ploy.
This is a valuable post I will have to study and read several times. Just wanted to share my appreciation for your choice of title with a reference to William James ... a big influence on my earlier years, and a more optimistic (if not naive) era.
One of the individuals I had mentioned, with the Factitious Disorder, is working as a therapist, btw. Another deceit. Not the first time that a therapist has been found to be a Cluster-B or DP themselves; it can happen.
Also in this person's litany of tricks was this. A relative had died, and left various goods to family members, having said in life that there were some valuable pieces amongst his possessions. Therefore the Cluster-B/DP relative who had inherited much of this did not want to part with it just yet. He put it in several paid-storage lockers. Then took off to spend money on an extensive vacation trip. He came back to unpaid bills from the storage company, saying that he had another month before he and his goods would be turned out.
So....the Cluster-B/DP con-man organized a smear campaign against this small storage business. Going to the BBB and the media with very indignant complaints.....to "alert others who might be conned by them". You know -- playing the pillar of the community. Of course the storage business owners were not the con-artists; it was the person they were trying to collect unpaid bills from.
But the false allegations from the Cluster-B/DP individual ruined their reputation, and the business was faltering the last time I heard of it.
This Cluster-B/DP con-artist was very proud of his handiwork, btw. With no lawyers involved, he had reduced his storage bill to zero, because the honest business owners had been frightened into it.
Have we discussed Factitious Disorder in DPs yet? I have to do another reading of this to focus on each detail again.
"Factitious disorder is a serious mental disorder in which someone deceives others by appearing sick, by purposely getting sick or by self-injury"
I have known of two Cluster-B personalities (could not tell if they were actually DPs or not) who engaged in Factitious Disorder. And who fully expected (and attempted to arrange) their chosen targets to become their caregivers.
In both cases, the serious medical claims were lies, and in both cases, the Cluster-B persons had either just met the target, or had known them long ago and pulled this stunt after a gap of many years in the relationship.
Not by name, but under attribute 14 (devious and manipulative), Mitchell writes: “One manipulative strategy that was discussed by several of the participants involved the feigned use of serious illnesses in themselves or family members.”
The illness stratagy can definatly be descriptive of lf dp, (it's easy to see how it develops) and has ponerized much of the victimhood strats in American culture.
It's taken to another level in HF dps and I would think over a sustained period of time (and with greater malevolence.
A bio family member has ms or something like it symtomatically that I think was related to spinal fluid issues. She'd faint and have moter cordination problems.
One look at her though and I could see the problem. She was rail thin. Totatally vegitarian and without any ounce of fat.
She managed to get disability and a lot of money from the family.
Another clusterB told everyone at work she had brain cancer (it came out later it was a cyst on the pituetary gland (which is scary enough) and was able to get cars and many other things from people. In fact the cancer lie was also used to cover-up for sleeping pill addiction, which she obtained by sleepind around, and lying about it to her long term boyfriend and everyone else.
I think what I'm going to do is make a list and description of the family member's actions and behaviors and match it/ cross reference it to Karen Mitchell's system and post it on Substack on Thersday.
"Enjoys the attention of others and is outspoken" versus "Prefers not to be the centre of attention and is more quietly spoken".
The better books and writers on Narcissistic Personality Disorder describe this as Overt NPD vs. Covert NPD.
It throws off suspicion when a DP plays the quiet, studious or religious "good guy". I knew one who was the neighbourhood handyman for anyone who mentioned having a chronically leaky faucet or a problem with basement damp or the proper use of power tools. Who would suspect him of anything but altruism? Of course there are indeed authentically altruistic individuals; many of them. And then you also have the other sort.
The majority population of normals simply never consider that another human personality dimension even exists. It shocks and astonishes them when they find out that this is so.
Please don't take this the "wrong" way - but at some point further "analysis" has diminishing returns - and some of the attributes discussed above - I just honestly think at a moment it ought be evident - no need to define it all - after awhile - tis evident - somebody either is helpful - or not....
~
That is intuitive to a degree - and really at some point further differentiation is just "diminishing returns". So to me - a critical aspect of that is "scale" - and there is a difference twixt "large-scale" harm versus harm smaller in scale - and the wise man knows the difference and then chooses accordingly in free will. Harm pushers always meet resistance no doubt.
Western NC? That recent situation does appear to have been, uh....tampered with. Is that what you are referring to? And WHO would have done such tampering? Have we not discussed creeping pathocracies on here? Rule by Psychopaths?
Who is ruling right now? In the US? Think about that, then work backwards.
And while I am at it --- three cheers for TRUMP and his victory!
Well ok - but who is the "everyone else" was sort of my point - at some moment - further analysis reaches diminishing returns - that is what I would say to any psychologist I meet in the future!
Extremely few, in my experience. And when you attempt to explain this, their eyes glaze over, as if you are talking about some C-grade Sci-Fi movie rather than human reality.
I first learned of the existence of such DPs when I was quite young. I am not young any more, and I still see the same majority out there who haven't got a clue about this phenomenon. Or they think it is about the Hannibal Lechter Hollywood story. Give me strength....
This is entirely counter-intuitive. It is a phenomenon which most people would think is non-existent, if they think of it at all.
This is one of the reasons Psychopathy can become so powerful....it can operate in plain view because the punters are over 90% mind-blind to it.
I know a fair about it thanks to you - I'm just saying and typing - mainly typing - in fact only typing here - is that at some point - tis splitting hairs - it is evident to many who the large scale harm pushers are - it ain't tricky to figure this out - so why define it out ad infinitum is all I'm saying - cause the longer it gets defined - the longer response may be if many just await some sort of definitive determination - but I think that is never going to be reached and is flawed ideologically - that's all I was typing Harrison.
Ken
ps - really I hope the sott folks in Western, NC are doing well - I reallly appreciate your sharing - I hope you know.
This is an "edit" - probably a few orders of magnitude more than that - probably more than enough for .....what is the term - "critical mass" - I suspect so - in fact, probably more than that.....tis known.
I don't find it to be "splitting hairs" though, Ken. I find it necessary in order to fully understand this phenomenon.
After all....it is an important issue, wouldn't you say? I mean....the explanation about how evil enters the world. Potentially leading to the understanding of how Good can fight this.
I think this has been one helluva concern since man first walked the earth. And in the West, by 2024, we have a creeping Pathocracy --- rule by Psychopaths. That is what totalitarianism is. Seeing it that way, you'd think they would be breaking down the doors to join this Substack; totalitarianism is not unknown. But you know .....people are odd.
This is how I see it too. There are many people, myself included, who find it difficult to believe certain things are even possible until they are spelled out in detail. I didn't know quite how to fit the "HF PPP" into the equation until reading Mitchell's work, even though I had a lot of the pieces already.
When I get into a question or a topic, Harrison, I eat detail. Whenever and wherever I can find it. It becomes a matter for me of reaching a saturation point, at which phase all of that detail begins to re-organize into patterns in my mind. And into insights, which practically have little arrows saying "Look here!" I reach a nexus, if I am lucky. I see a series of connections between all of those data points. After all of that work over all of that time....I know.
Psychopathy is about more than just Psychopathy. It is a large aspect of the explanation for how the overall human experiment works. I consider it a pivot-point in a Psycho-spiritual explanation. Why is this evil allowed to insinuate itself into humanity? There must be a reason. God and the fates -- through tools such as evolution -- are not haphazard. I have my suspicions that it has to do with growth. The very hard way.
I had encountered Covert NPD types early in the game. Therefore I was ready and able to see how they worked the room. Came as no surprise to me after a few such incidents.
After all, most of us are familiar with what con-artists are, and what they do. If only in hindsight. We know that they could not have carried out their scams without presenting as trustworthy, at least initially. The worst of them are DPs. So we know that to gain trust, con-artists and DPs can present in worthy high-functioning ways, in order to lure their targets. I mean, look at Bernie Madoff. Or Jim Jones. Or even your average pedophile. Their initial approaches must be high-functioning, or they would not snare targets.
Nobody answered my question above - "Agree or not - our "numbers" are growing" - (please - in the context of the thread discourse).
But, just to be specific - tis my view that the numbers growing who are beginning to realize for lack of a simpler way to state it: "evil exists" - and seems on both individual and collective levels that is the case - that was the lesson I learned in 2022 - even after I already knew I'd been lied to since the day/year I was born (1965).
~
So again I ask - are the numbers of folks understanding this aspect of pathocratic behavior increase or not?
I think the answer is evidently "yes" - no doubt somewhat due to this place Harrison shares ideas....I think that is a good thing.
What you all think?
Ken
ps - sorry for any typos - it is truly a most beautiful day where I am today - I need to go outside and get some sunlight....
pss - this an edit but does the word "pathocratic" exist? If not, I think ought....and credit due to Harrison in that regard!
"They may engage in 'lying, manipulation, cruelty, and harming others,' but they 'have a moral compass and a conscience and are not intrinsically deeply malevolent.'”
"She quotes other researchers who speculate that this may be 'environmental' as opposed to hereditary in nature, and curable."
From my own perspective, I would say yes and no. Those who are environmentally moulded into the Cluster-B disorders (often through child emotional neglect or abuse or Parentification) can be fully as destructive to their targets (to a point) as the born Psychopath.....with the difference that they will seldom kill --although the emotional grief/stress they cause their targets may lead to fatal medical outcomes indirectly. Pathological Narcissists, far more frequently than usual for the stats, have spouses dying too soon of various Cancers and Autoimmune Diseases.
Curable? The Cluster-B Personality Disordered types? Well.....Dialectical Behaviour Therapy has had some good results with the Borderline Personality Disorder individuals.
And the late James Masterson, Psychiatrist, would have said that his methods held out hope for the NPD/BPD types. Although you must initially get them to see that they do indeed have a problem -- not easily done.
These days, there are also therapeutic techniques for unresolved trauma. If the latter was the environmental cause of a pathological Personality Disorder of this nature, there may be hope in this realm. Even if one of the parents of an NPD/BPD engages is in successful trauma therapy, there can be a positive effect upon the NPD/BPD grown child due to the paradigm-shift in the family system.
"The greatest trick the HF PPP ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist."
Yes, indeed. This has covered for the several PPPs at the high levels of the American Democratic Party.
I am happy you were willing to do this work. I could not bring myself to plow through this section of the manuscript. It makes important points but contains subtleties that one must wrap one's wits around.
I don't have the "bandwidth" right now to compare these conclusions to what Hubbard came up with. But I am confident that his work was sufficient for his purposes.
If a community or society wants to confront this problem and try to create a legal framework and public policy that would deal with such people, what would they come up with? We have a system that works OK in the church, but I don't know that it could translate to the broader culture. The huge challenge, of course, has always been: How to prevent HF PPP's from taking over the system that determines who is a HF PPP? I think this could only be solved with a broad and thorough educational program among the general public. Otherwise, people will be persuaded that any such attempt is "dangerous" or might violate their civil rights.
Those DPs who cannot be depended on?
I posted somewhere earlier of the young woman who had been willingly appointed bridesmaid (with zero expenditures expected) at a friend's wedding, only to fail on her commitments in every way, even the basics.
All of this was not exposed until the wedding day. When it was too late to fix. Meaning maximum emotional pain. The DP then told the bride, waiting on the church steps for this very late bridesmaid, that if she (the bride) broke down and cried, she would ruin her own wedding. Therefore the DP gets the target, coming and going.
“Her children were a reflection of her, they had to perform, or they were belittled and treated differently.”
There are stage-mothers and sports-mothers and tiger-mothers who live vicariously through their children. I think these are women with little personhood, projecting their own most coveted images upon the children. Of course you have some fathers of that nature too. Most of them are on the spectrum of disordered empathy, and will produce children who never have real personhood either.
There have been some such parents who may veer into far more sinister levels of this. I still wonder about the mother of JonBenet Ramsey, the child found dead at home (1990s). Or whether a DP parent might have been involved in the group of students succumbing to the suicide cluster of Palo Alto High School in California some years ago.
"Others had escaped punishment because they had hurt their fellows in a manner which does not qualify for judicial treatment under legal theory or practice."
This type of DP harm is often seen in the midst of their various divorces, and more especially within situations of Parental Alienation which are instigated by them.
For instance, within North America there are jurisdictions which still have a law on the books stating that any individual may be retained and held against their will for "mental health assessment" over varying periods. 72 hrs. is not unusual.
Who can put in a request for this? The spouse. And generally, the request goes through low legal levels such as a local Justice of the Peace.
Fill out a form which may have been passed out to the DP by police officers in domestic cases before they have any idea who the actual perpetrator is; therefore the DP can be introduced to this trick by the police on the scene....who the DP may have called using false allegations.
The perfectly normal spouse may have no idea it has been used against them until a police/sheriff team arrives out of the blue, handcuffs them in front of children and neighbours, and takes them off to a secure mental unit. While the DP looks on feigning concern. Puts on an Academy Award performance.
The police? "Just doing my job, Ma'am/Sir." Once an order for this has been signed, they are blind, deaf and dumb to the truth of the matter. Do not wish to know.
This is a variant of the Victorian gentleman, tired of the wife, arranging to trade her in for a newer model by using the "mad wife in the attic" ploy.
Hi Harrison,
This is a valuable post I will have to study and read several times. Just wanted to share my appreciation for your choice of title with a reference to William James ... a big influence on my earlier years, and a more optimistic (if not naive) era.
Cheers from Japan
One of the individuals I had mentioned, with the Factitious Disorder, is working as a therapist, btw. Another deceit. Not the first time that a therapist has been found to be a Cluster-B or DP themselves; it can happen.
Also in this person's litany of tricks was this. A relative had died, and left various goods to family members, having said in life that there were some valuable pieces amongst his possessions. Therefore the Cluster-B/DP relative who had inherited much of this did not want to part with it just yet. He put it in several paid-storage lockers. Then took off to spend money on an extensive vacation trip. He came back to unpaid bills from the storage company, saying that he had another month before he and his goods would be turned out.
So....the Cluster-B/DP con-man organized a smear campaign against this small storage business. Going to the BBB and the media with very indignant complaints.....to "alert others who might be conned by them". You know -- playing the pillar of the community. Of course the storage business owners were not the con-artists; it was the person they were trying to collect unpaid bills from.
But the false allegations from the Cluster-B/DP individual ruined their reputation, and the business was faltering the last time I heard of it.
This Cluster-B/DP con-artist was very proud of his handiwork, btw. With no lawyers involved, he had reduced his storage bill to zero, because the honest business owners had been frightened into it.
Have we discussed Factitious Disorder in DPs yet? I have to do another reading of this to focus on each detail again.
"Factitious disorder is a serious mental disorder in which someone deceives others by appearing sick, by purposely getting sick or by self-injury"
I have known of two Cluster-B personalities (could not tell if they were actually DPs or not) who engaged in Factitious Disorder. And who fully expected (and attempted to arrange) their chosen targets to become their caregivers.
In both cases, the serious medical claims were lies, and in both cases, the Cluster-B persons had either just met the target, or had known them long ago and pulled this stunt after a gap of many years in the relationship.
Not by name, but under attribute 14 (devious and manipulative), Mitchell writes: “One manipulative strategy that was discussed by several of the participants involved the feigned use of serious illnesses in themselves or family members.”
The illness stratagy can definatly be descriptive of lf dp, (it's easy to see how it develops) and has ponerized much of the victimhood strats in American culture.
It's taken to another level in HF dps and I would think over a sustained period of time (and with greater malevolence.
A bio family member has ms or something like it symtomatically that I think was related to spinal fluid issues. She'd faint and have moter cordination problems.
One look at her though and I could see the problem. She was rail thin. Totatally vegitarian and without any ounce of fat.
She managed to get disability and a lot of money from the family.
Another clusterB told everyone at work she had brain cancer (it came out later it was a cyst on the pituetary gland (which is scary enough) and was able to get cars and many other things from people. In fact the cancer lie was also used to cover-up for sleeping pill addiction, which she obtained by sleepind around, and lying about it to her long term boyfriend and everyone else.
I think what I'm going to do is make a list and description of the family member's actions and behaviors and match it/ cross reference it to Karen Mitchell's system and post it on Substack on Thersday.
"Enjoys the attention of others and is outspoken" versus "Prefers not to be the centre of attention and is more quietly spoken".
The better books and writers on Narcissistic Personality Disorder describe this as Overt NPD vs. Covert NPD.
It throws off suspicion when a DP plays the quiet, studious or religious "good guy". I knew one who was the neighbourhood handyman for anyone who mentioned having a chronically leaky faucet or a problem with basement damp or the proper use of power tools. Who would suspect him of anything but altruism? Of course there are indeed authentically altruistic individuals; many of them. And then you also have the other sort.
The majority population of normals simply never consider that another human personality dimension even exists. It shocks and astonishes them when they find out that this is so.
On the ground, in very practical terms, after you regain the power from a Pathocracy, this is how you put up further bulwarks against them:
Donald Trump, the President elect, has released ten point plan to dismantle the Deep State which you can watch here. https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1854717077837562314?s=61
Please don't take this the "wrong" way - but at some point further "analysis" has diminishing returns - and some of the attributes discussed above - I just honestly think at a moment it ought be evident - no need to define it all - after awhile - tis evident - somebody either is helpful - or not....
~
That is intuitive to a degree - and really at some point further differentiation is just "diminishing returns". So to me - a critical aspect of that is "scale" - and there is a difference twixt "large-scale" harm versus harm smaller in scale - and the wise man knows the difference and then chooses accordingly in free will. Harm pushers always meet resistance no doubt.
What you think - that sentiment got any merit?
Ken
Maybe? At some point that would apply to some individuals. For everyone else, they need some analysis, imo.
I got a serious question you might consider flippant - but it ain't - cause tis serious -
first though this:
https://youtu.be/AwIPiw4_Ba8?list=PLp3o6lwxnqMkm9dUECwqVBQY0IN6n1wH_&t=1
My serious question is how are things going in Western NC area if you know anything bout that?
Serious.
Ken
Western NC? That recent situation does appear to have been, uh....tampered with. Is that what you are referring to? And WHO would have done such tampering? Have we not discussed creeping pathocracies on here? Rule by Psychopaths?
Who is ruling right now? In the US? Think about that, then work backwards.
And while I am at it --- three cheers for TRUMP and his victory!
Well ok - but who is the "everyone else" was sort of my point - at some moment - further analysis reaches diminishing returns - that is what I would say to any psychologist I meet in the future!
🤷♂️🤷♀️
How many people do you know who have an even rudimentary understanding of the existence and nature of psychopathy?
Extremely few, in my experience. And when you attempt to explain this, their eyes glaze over, as if you are talking about some C-grade Sci-Fi movie rather than human reality.
I first learned of the existence of such DPs when I was quite young. I am not young any more, and I still see the same majority out there who haven't got a clue about this phenomenon. Or they think it is about the Hannibal Lechter Hollywood story. Give me strength....
This is entirely counter-intuitive. It is a phenomenon which most people would think is non-existent, if they think of it at all.
This is one of the reasons Psychopathy can become so powerful....it can operate in plain view because the punters are over 90% mind-blind to it.
I know a fair about it thanks to you - I'm just saying and typing - mainly typing - in fact only typing here - is that at some point - tis splitting hairs - it is evident to many who the large scale harm pushers are - it ain't tricky to figure this out - so why define it out ad infinitum is all I'm saying - cause the longer it gets defined - the longer response may be if many just await some sort of definitive determination - but I think that is never going to be reached and is flawed ideologically - that's all I was typing Harrison.
Ken
ps - really I hope the sott folks in Western, NC are doing well - I reallly appreciate your sharing - I hope you know.
Uh two or three I think!
😊
This is an "edit" - probably a few orders of magnitude more than that - probably more than enough for .....what is the term - "critical mass" - I suspect so - in fact, probably more than that.....tis known.
This is not about "helpfulness" though, Ken.
There are not many wise men out there when it comes to spotting Dark Personalities.
True on that I reckon....but our numbers are growing.
Agree or not?
If so, thanks to Harrison's efforts - all I'm saying is splitting hairs has diminishing returns - "A." - I mean all I'm typing....
Regards
BK
I don't find it to be "splitting hairs" though, Ken. I find it necessary in order to fully understand this phenomenon.
After all....it is an important issue, wouldn't you say? I mean....the explanation about how evil enters the world. Potentially leading to the understanding of how Good can fight this.
I think this has been one helluva concern since man first walked the earth. And in the West, by 2024, we have a creeping Pathocracy --- rule by Psychopaths. That is what totalitarianism is. Seeing it that way, you'd think they would be breaking down the doors to join this Substack; totalitarianism is not unknown. But you know .....people are odd.
This is how I see it too. There are many people, myself included, who find it difficult to believe certain things are even possible until they are spelled out in detail. I didn't know quite how to fit the "HF PPP" into the equation until reading Mitchell's work, even though I had a lot of the pieces already.
When I get into a question or a topic, Harrison, I eat detail. Whenever and wherever I can find it. It becomes a matter for me of reaching a saturation point, at which phase all of that detail begins to re-organize into patterns in my mind. And into insights, which practically have little arrows saying "Look here!" I reach a nexus, if I am lucky. I see a series of connections between all of those data points. After all of that work over all of that time....I know.
Psychopathy is about more than just Psychopathy. It is a large aspect of the explanation for how the overall human experiment works. I consider it a pivot-point in a Psycho-spiritual explanation. Why is this evil allowed to insinuate itself into humanity? There must be a reason. God and the fates -- through tools such as evolution -- are not haphazard. I have my suspicions that it has to do with growth. The very hard way.
I had encountered Covert NPD types early in the game. Therefore I was ready and able to see how they worked the room. Came as no surprise to me after a few such incidents.
After all, most of us are familiar with what con-artists are, and what they do. If only in hindsight. We know that they could not have carried out their scams without presenting as trustworthy, at least initially. The worst of them are DPs. So we know that to gain trust, con-artists and DPs can present in worthy high-functioning ways, in order to lure their targets. I mean, look at Bernie Madoff. Or Jim Jones. Or even your average pedophile. Their initial approaches must be high-functioning, or they would not snare targets.
Nobody answered my question above - "Agree or not - our "numbers" are growing" - (please - in the context of the thread discourse).
But, just to be specific - tis my view that the numbers growing who are beginning to realize for lack of a simpler way to state it: "evil exists" - and seems on both individual and collective levels that is the case - that was the lesson I learned in 2022 - even after I already knew I'd been lied to since the day/year I was born (1965).
~
So again I ask - are the numbers of folks understanding this aspect of pathocratic behavior increase or not?
I think the answer is evidently "yes" - no doubt somewhat due to this place Harrison shares ideas....I think that is a good thing.
What you all think?
Ken
ps - sorry for any typos - it is truly a most beautiful day where I am today - I need to go outside and get some sunlight....
pss - this an edit but does the word "pathocratic" exist? If not, I think ought....and credit due to Harrison in that regard!
Peace!
"They may engage in 'lying, manipulation, cruelty, and harming others,' but they 'have a moral compass and a conscience and are not intrinsically deeply malevolent.'”
"She quotes other researchers who speculate that this may be 'environmental' as opposed to hereditary in nature, and curable."
From my own perspective, I would say yes and no. Those who are environmentally moulded into the Cluster-B disorders (often through child emotional neglect or abuse or Parentification) can be fully as destructive to their targets (to a point) as the born Psychopath.....with the difference that they will seldom kill --although the emotional grief/stress they cause their targets may lead to fatal medical outcomes indirectly. Pathological Narcissists, far more frequently than usual for the stats, have spouses dying too soon of various Cancers and Autoimmune Diseases.
Curable? The Cluster-B Personality Disordered types? Well.....Dialectical Behaviour Therapy has had some good results with the Borderline Personality Disorder individuals.
And the late James Masterson, Psychiatrist, would have said that his methods held out hope for the NPD/BPD types. Although you must initially get them to see that they do indeed have a problem -- not easily done.
These days, there are also therapeutic techniques for unresolved trauma. If the latter was the environmental cause of a pathological Personality Disorder of this nature, there may be hope in this realm. Even if one of the parents of an NPD/BPD engages is in successful trauma therapy, there can be a positive effect upon the NPD/BPD grown child due to the paradigm-shift in the family system.