I am happy you were willing to do this work. I could not bring myself to plow through this section of the manuscript. It makes important points but contains subtleties that one must wrap one's wits around.
I don't have the "bandwidth" right now to compare these conclusions to what Hubbard came up with. But I am confident that his work was sufficient for his purposes.
If a community or society wants to confront this problem and try to create a legal framework and public policy that would deal with such people, what would they come up with? We have a system that works OK in the church, but I don't know that it could translate to the broader culture. The huge challenge, of course, has always been: How to prevent HF PPP's from taking over the system that determines who is a HF PPP? I think this could only be solved with a broad and thorough educational program among the general public. Otherwise, people will be persuaded that any such attempt is "dangerous" or might violate their civil rights.
This is a valuable post I will have to study and read several times. Just wanted to share my appreciation for your choice of title with a reference to William James ... a big influence on my earlier years, and a more optimistic (if not naive) era.
Please don't take this the "wrong" way - but at some point further "analysis" has diminishing returns - and some of the attributes discussed above - I just honestly think at a moment it ought be evident - no need to define it all - after awhile - tis evident - somebody either is helpful - or not....
~
That is intuitive to a degree - and really at some point further differentiation is just "diminishing returns". So to me - a critical aspect of that is "scale" - and there is a difference twixt "large-scale" harm versus harm smaller in scale - and the wise man knows the difference and then chooses accordingly in free will. Harm pushers always meet resistance no doubt.
Well ok - but who is the "everyone else" was sort of my point - at some moment - further analysis reaches diminishing returns - that is what I would say to any psychologist I meet in the future!
I know a fair about it thanks to you - I'm just saying and typing - mainly typing - in fact only typing here - is that at some point - tis splitting hairs - it is evident to many who the large scale harm pushers are - it ain't tricky to figure this out - so why define it out ad infinitum is all I'm saying - cause the longer it gets defined - the longer response may be if many just await some sort of definitive determination - but I think that is never going to be reached and is flawed ideologically - that's all I was typing Harrison.
Ken
ps - really I hope the sott folks in Western, NC are doing well - I reallly appreciate your sharing - I hope you know.
This is an "edit" - probably a few orders of magnitude more than that - probably more than enough for .....what is the term - "critical mass" - I suspect so - in fact, probably more than that.....tis known.
Nobody answered my question above - "Agree or not - our "numbers" are growing" - (please - in the context of the thread discourse).
But, just to be specific - tis my view that the numbers growing who are beginning to realize for lack of a simpler way to state it: "evil exists" - and seems on both individual and collective levels that is the case - that was the lesson I learned in 2022 - even after I already knew I'd been lied to since the day/year I was born (1965).
~
So again I ask - are the numbers of folks understanding this aspect of pathocratic behavior increase or not?
I think the answer is evidently "yes" - no doubt somewhat due to this place Harrison shares ideas....I think that is a good thing.
What you all think?
Ken
ps - sorry for any typos - it is truly a most beautiful day where I am today - I need to go outside and get some sunlight....
pss - this an edit but does the word "pathocratic" exist? If not, I think ought....and credit due to Harrison in that regard!
This is how I see it too. There are many people, myself included, who find it difficult to believe certain things are even possible until they are spelled out in detail. I didn't know quite how to fit the "HF PPP" into the equation until reading Mitchell's work, even though I had a lot of the pieces already.
Not by name, but under attribute 14 (devious and manipulative), Mitchell writes: “One manipulative strategy that was discussed by several of the participants involved the feigned use of serious illnesses in themselves or family members.”
The illness stratagy can definatly be descriptive of lf dp, (it's easy to see how it develops) and has ponerized much of the victimhood strats in American culture.
It's taken to another level in HF dps and I would think over a sustained period of time (and with greater malevolence.
A bio family member has ms or something like it symtomatically that I think was related to spinal fluid issues. She'd faint and have moter cordination problems.
One look at her though and I could see the problem. She was rail thin. Totatally vegitarian and without any ounce of fat.
She managed to get disability and a lot of money from the family.
Another clusterB told everyone at work she had brain cancer (it came out later it was a cyst on the pituetary gland (which is scary enough) and was able to get cars and many other things from people. In fact the cancer lie was also used to cover-up for sleeping pill addiction, which she obtained by sleepind around, and lying about it to her long term boyfriend and everyone else.
I think what I'm going to do is make a list and description of the family member's actions and behaviors and match it/ cross reference it to Karen Mitchell's system and post it on Substack on Thersday.
I am happy you were willing to do this work. I could not bring myself to plow through this section of the manuscript. It makes important points but contains subtleties that one must wrap one's wits around.
I don't have the "bandwidth" right now to compare these conclusions to what Hubbard came up with. But I am confident that his work was sufficient for his purposes.
If a community or society wants to confront this problem and try to create a legal framework and public policy that would deal with such people, what would they come up with? We have a system that works OK in the church, but I don't know that it could translate to the broader culture. The huge challenge, of course, has always been: How to prevent HF PPP's from taking over the system that determines who is a HF PPP? I think this could only be solved with a broad and thorough educational program among the general public. Otherwise, people will be persuaded that any such attempt is "dangerous" or might violate their civil rights.
Hi Harrison,
This is a valuable post I will have to study and read several times. Just wanted to share my appreciation for your choice of title with a reference to William James ... a big influence on my earlier years, and a more optimistic (if not naive) era.
Cheers from Japan
Please don't take this the "wrong" way - but at some point further "analysis" has diminishing returns - and some of the attributes discussed above - I just honestly think at a moment it ought be evident - no need to define it all - after awhile - tis evident - somebody either is helpful - or not....
~
That is intuitive to a degree - and really at some point further differentiation is just "diminishing returns". So to me - a critical aspect of that is "scale" - and there is a difference twixt "large-scale" harm versus harm smaller in scale - and the wise man knows the difference and then chooses accordingly in free will. Harm pushers always meet resistance no doubt.
What you think - that sentiment got any merit?
Ken
Maybe? At some point that would apply to some individuals. For everyone else, they need some analysis, imo.
I got a serious question you might consider flippant - but it ain't - cause tis serious -
first though this:
https://youtu.be/AwIPiw4_Ba8?list=PLp3o6lwxnqMkm9dUECwqVBQY0IN6n1wH_&t=1
My serious question is how are things going in Western NC area if you know anything bout that?
Serious.
Ken
Well ok - but who is the "everyone else" was sort of my point - at some moment - further analysis reaches diminishing returns - that is what I would say to any psychologist I meet in the future!
🤷♂️🤷♀️
How many people do you know who have an even rudimentary understanding of the existence and nature of psychopathy?
I know a fair about it thanks to you - I'm just saying and typing - mainly typing - in fact only typing here - is that at some point - tis splitting hairs - it is evident to many who the large scale harm pushers are - it ain't tricky to figure this out - so why define it out ad infinitum is all I'm saying - cause the longer it gets defined - the longer response may be if many just await some sort of definitive determination - but I think that is never going to be reached and is flawed ideologically - that's all I was typing Harrison.
Ken
ps - really I hope the sott folks in Western, NC are doing well - I reallly appreciate your sharing - I hope you know.
Uh two or three I think!
😊
This is an "edit" - probably a few orders of magnitude more than that - probably more than enough for .....what is the term - "critical mass" - I suspect so - in fact, probably more than that.....tis known.
True on that I reckon....but our numbers are growing.
Agree or not?
If so, thanks to Harrison's efforts - all I'm saying is splitting hairs has diminishing returns - "A." - I mean all I'm typing....
Regards
BK
Nobody answered my question above - "Agree or not - our "numbers" are growing" - (please - in the context of the thread discourse).
But, just to be specific - tis my view that the numbers growing who are beginning to realize for lack of a simpler way to state it: "evil exists" - and seems on both individual and collective levels that is the case - that was the lesson I learned in 2022 - even after I already knew I'd been lied to since the day/year I was born (1965).
~
So again I ask - are the numbers of folks understanding this aspect of pathocratic behavior increase or not?
I think the answer is evidently "yes" - no doubt somewhat due to this place Harrison shares ideas....I think that is a good thing.
What you all think?
Ken
ps - sorry for any typos - it is truly a most beautiful day where I am today - I need to go outside and get some sunlight....
pss - this an edit but does the word "pathocratic" exist? If not, I think ought....and credit due to Harrison in that regard!
Peace!
This is how I see it too. There are many people, myself included, who find it difficult to believe certain things are even possible until they are spelled out in detail. I didn't know quite how to fit the "HF PPP" into the equation until reading Mitchell's work, even though I had a lot of the pieces already.
Not by name, but under attribute 14 (devious and manipulative), Mitchell writes: “One manipulative strategy that was discussed by several of the participants involved the feigned use of serious illnesses in themselves or family members.”
The illness stratagy can definatly be descriptive of lf dp, (it's easy to see how it develops) and has ponerized much of the victimhood strats in American culture.
It's taken to another level in HF dps and I would think over a sustained period of time (and with greater malevolence.
A bio family member has ms or something like it symtomatically that I think was related to spinal fluid issues. She'd faint and have moter cordination problems.
One look at her though and I could see the problem. She was rail thin. Totatally vegitarian and without any ounce of fat.
She managed to get disability and a lot of money from the family.
Another clusterB told everyone at work she had brain cancer (it came out later it was a cyst on the pituetary gland (which is scary enough) and was able to get cars and many other things from people. In fact the cancer lie was also used to cover-up for sleeping pill addiction, which she obtained by sleepind around, and lying about it to her long term boyfriend and everyone else.
I think what I'm going to do is make a list and description of the family member's actions and behaviors and match it/ cross reference it to Karen Mitchell's system and post it on Substack on Thersday.