I was like the opposite, as a kid. I felt so intensely it could be debilitating. I was intensely shy, because i had no boundaries between my emotions and the emotions of others, I could feel their emotion as intensely as my own. That was an issue for me well into my twenties, and it was only until my mid thirties when I learned some tools about how to maintain emotional boundaries. I'm much more at ease now than I used to be, but relationships where boundaries have to be opened up can be difficult.
I was thinking about Watchmen just the other day... been wondering if the faked alien plot is the next psy op they are going to pull... seems they were playing with it with the balloons....
Feb 18, 2023·edited Feb 18, 2023Liked by Harrison Koehli
I think the big difference between Bickle and Rorschach is context.
In Bickle's case, the only real context is the mood and tone of the film. Even his voiceovers don't really betray much about his own history, or provide us with clues about what might have gone wrong to lead him down his path. Stylistically this makes sense in the medium; his character is more of an analog for a city/world gone mad, and so the spare pencil sketch (if that) of his history actually assists the artist's purpose. He can be anyone.
The case of Rorschach is more complex, because, as with all of the characters, we are supplied with quite a bit of context (in the book, at least). Not only are we introduced to his traumatic upbringing via epistolary/document, but we are also shown in graphic detail a far more recent trauma that explains a dramatic change in his worldview. In the flashback of his case regarding the missing girl who was fed to dogs, we're shown a man losing the (admittedly fragile) stability and purpose he'd found in life.
Other characters noticed and commented on this profound shift in Rorschach; most especially Dan, who was his former partner and clearly his closest friend. So with Rorschach, we have a person who was damaged by traumacand forged a way to channel it in positive directions, only to be re-traumatized by the all blackest horrors of the world in one concentrated moment. I think the artists captured this transformation perfectly in the following two pages.
On this one, note especially the final "red" panel. This is Kovacs realizing what happened. "Solving the case" so to speak:
All of this is not to say that Rorschach and/or Kovacs was a "hero," exactly (none of them were, in the classic mold). But the way that Moore and Gibbons painted him seems to resist any model of schizoid personality as something inherent. Whatever he'd become by the time we met him in the story, it was molded by experience. It's also worth noting that he was essentially correct in most of his suspicions and instincts, for whatever that's worth.
I grew up with two dog killers—young men who demonstrated many of the traits detailed in this entry. I also know that animal torture/killing is a common training ground for serial killers. One of those kids has grown up to be the criminal you'd expect and has spent most of his life in jails and prisons. He's scary. Cold, cold, cold. The other kid has grown into a productive adult—a blue collar guy who does lose his temper in moderate ways. He's extremely eccentric, very socially awkward, but doesn't scare anybody. They were both extremely troubled kids who've diverged in a big way. Both of then had similar home lives. Makes me very curious about their development.
Well this is a brand new learning curve for me and now I have an idea of what this disorder looks and feels like for sufferers and it is so sad indeed. I was shy as a child and I can remember my cheeks burning hotly when I was embarrassed by something. I’ve had great emotional depth and empathy for others in my adult life but I also kept my rose coloured spectacles on for much of my life too until they were forced off always preferring to see the good and not the bad so for self protection I guess. My daughter asked me the other day if I have an internal dialogue with myself so I thought about it and answered her yes I most definitely do talk to myself in my head all the time and always have and she said she also always has. My other daughter chimed in that she too always talks to herself in her mind and sometimes wished she could shut up her inner voice especially at night when trying to go to sleep lol. We both asked my eldest why did she ask this question to which she replied she had been reading up on it out of curiosity and if you do have an inner dialogue with yourself it begins in childhood and she also found to her surprise some people don’t have this inner voice where they talk to themselves! I figure lots of stuff out in this way, come to a decision, weigh pros and cons of doing something etc.and cannot remember a time where I did not do it and cannot imagine not doing it. The human psyche sure is a strange and mysterious thing when we are all so individual and so complex. I was glad to learn in my family that we all have inner dialogues with ourselves and I can still remember joking with my parents as a child that it was ok to talk to yourself out loud as long as you don’t answer yourself lol.
Thank you for the excellent overview of the disorder! I have another recent example for you. 001's (Vecna) monologue in Stranger Things. Sounded like a schyzoid declaration.
You mean to say you're not a King Crimson fan? Shame! Especially since there's a connection to Gurdjeff via mastermind Fripp.
Personally, I found Dr. Manhattan's explanation not so much autistic as wholesome spiritually, it conveys to me big picture thinking, not emotionally impaired or socially awkward thinking. Though of course it doesn't preclude those latter traits either.
Sad.
I was like the opposite, as a kid. I felt so intensely it could be debilitating. I was intensely shy, because i had no boundaries between my emotions and the emotions of others, I could feel their emotion as intensely as my own. That was an issue for me well into my twenties, and it was only until my mid thirties when I learned some tools about how to maintain emotional boundaries. I'm much more at ease now than I used to be, but relationships where boundaries have to be opened up can be difficult.
I was thinking about Watchmen just the other day... been wondering if the faked alien plot is the next psy op they are going to pull... seems they were playing with it with the balloons....
I think the big difference between Bickle and Rorschach is context.
In Bickle's case, the only real context is the mood and tone of the film. Even his voiceovers don't really betray much about his own history, or provide us with clues about what might have gone wrong to lead him down his path. Stylistically this makes sense in the medium; his character is more of an analog for a city/world gone mad, and so the spare pencil sketch (if that) of his history actually assists the artist's purpose. He can be anyone.
The case of Rorschach is more complex, because, as with all of the characters, we are supplied with quite a bit of context (in the book, at least). Not only are we introduced to his traumatic upbringing via epistolary/document, but we are also shown in graphic detail a far more recent trauma that explains a dramatic change in his worldview. In the flashback of his case regarding the missing girl who was fed to dogs, we're shown a man losing the (admittedly fragile) stability and purpose he'd found in life.
Other characters noticed and commented on this profound shift in Rorschach; most especially Dan, who was his former partner and clearly his closest friend. So with Rorschach, we have a person who was damaged by traumacand forged a way to channel it in positive directions, only to be re-traumatized by the all blackest horrors of the world in one concentrated moment. I think the artists captured this transformation perfectly in the following two pages.
On this one, note especially the final "red" panel. This is Kovacs realizing what happened. "Solving the case" so to speak:
http://marywashicomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Dogs.png
On the next page, Kovacs is truly transformed into the "Rorschach" we know, the mask becoming the face:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cF6eKQT_OI_g4RkneIVTD_kbysI=/0x0:908x946/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:908x946):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3915144/watchmen_06_-_21.0.jpg
All of this is not to say that Rorschach and/or Kovacs was a "hero," exactly (none of them were, in the classic mold). But the way that Moore and Gibbons painted him seems to resist any model of schizoid personality as something inherent. Whatever he'd become by the time we met him in the story, it was molded by experience. It's also worth noting that he was essentially correct in most of his suspicions and instincts, for whatever that's worth.
I grew up with two dog killers—young men who demonstrated many of the traits detailed in this entry. I also know that animal torture/killing is a common training ground for serial killers. One of those kids has grown up to be the criminal you'd expect and has spent most of his life in jails and prisons. He's scary. Cold, cold, cold. The other kid has grown into a productive adult—a blue collar guy who does lose his temper in moderate ways. He's extremely eccentric, very socially awkward, but doesn't scare anybody. They were both extremely troubled kids who've diverged in a big way. Both of then had similar home lives. Makes me very curious about their development.
Well this is a brand new learning curve for me and now I have an idea of what this disorder looks and feels like for sufferers and it is so sad indeed. I was shy as a child and I can remember my cheeks burning hotly when I was embarrassed by something. I’ve had great emotional depth and empathy for others in my adult life but I also kept my rose coloured spectacles on for much of my life too until they were forced off always preferring to see the good and not the bad so for self protection I guess. My daughter asked me the other day if I have an internal dialogue with myself so I thought about it and answered her yes I most definitely do talk to myself in my head all the time and always have and she said she also always has. My other daughter chimed in that she too always talks to herself in her mind and sometimes wished she could shut up her inner voice especially at night when trying to go to sleep lol. We both asked my eldest why did she ask this question to which she replied she had been reading up on it out of curiosity and if you do have an inner dialogue with yourself it begins in childhood and she also found to her surprise some people don’t have this inner voice where they talk to themselves! I figure lots of stuff out in this way, come to a decision, weigh pros and cons of doing something etc.and cannot remember a time where I did not do it and cannot imagine not doing it. The human psyche sure is a strange and mysterious thing when we are all so individual and so complex. I was glad to learn in my family that we all have inner dialogues with ourselves and I can still remember joking with my parents as a child that it was ok to talk to yourself out loud as long as you don’t answer yourself lol.
Thank you for the excellent overview of the disorder! I have another recent example for you. 001's (Vecna) monologue in Stranger Things. Sounded like a schyzoid declaration.
https://youtu.be/ldqfi5laV0k
You mean to say you're not a King Crimson fan? Shame! Especially since there's a connection to Gurdjeff via mastermind Fripp.
Personally, I found Dr. Manhattan's explanation not so much autistic as wholesome spiritually, it conveys to me big picture thinking, not emotionally impaired or socially awkward thinking. Though of course it doesn't preclude those latter traits either.